Working on a map

[CarThief]

Hi, its my first post in here, and just as well as decided to post what im working on in here, its not too crowded, the people seem friendly, and here i can actually post about mapping for Duke. Or atleast a good starting place to start posting about Duke maps, i guess.

In any case, i'll put up some screenshots, as i see frequently enough that those attract most attention, hehe.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/472/dlabsc1yo5.png - The outside area where Duke starts.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/650/dlabsc2ko7.png - Somewhat further into the base, i like the looks of this area.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3416/dlabsc3gg4.png - Even further, this area  is one of the crew quarter rooms.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9885/dlabsc4vk1.png - An area where ships are launched, though this time trough the roof. But at the moment empty.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/351/dlabsc5zf6.png - One of the more higher offices, with a nice design, and more windows then one could ask for.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1363/dlabsc6na9.png - One of the underground area's, includes a drill, and is mainly unfinished (in the story line, atleast, the base is under construction and further modifications by the aliens).

Using thumbnails would probaly clog it a bit up.

Now, i just need some inspiration, as with using 1815/4096 sectors, 10066/16384 walls and 3025/16384 sprites, one could get a bit tired.
Any interesting idea's? Or just an comment to fuel me and get the construction somewhat further.

In any case looking forward to comments, im sure it isnt such a bad map. Though it will be the first one i'l officially release, most other ones early where rather... crappy, but mainly for testing, i guess.

Edit: The map is finished. Hop to the bottom of page 5 for the download. Requires to be logged in.

[MetHy]

It's good to see some new talented mappers. I defenitly like what I'm seeing there, it's detailed, I like the ideas and the theme of the map, texturing and sprite works are good too.

However, is it just me or shading needs a bit of work ? Especially on indoor locations like in the 2nd and 4th screenshots....

Any interesting idea's?

With such a big and long map (I'm assuming it's big and long, with so many walls used) you should totally try to make an "epic" ending with a kind of big boss fight... Not sure if this helps though...
Is the drill near the end of the map ? maybe somehow you could "fake" the drill to work or to have worked in a way and then Duke has to go through a tunnel and will enter a kind of Alien hive with a boss in there ? (not sure if it would fit the theme of your map too, it's just an idea...)

Hi, its my first post in here, and just as well as decided to post what im working on in here, its not too crowded, the people seem friendly, and here i can actually post about mapping for Duke. Or atleast a good starting place to start posting about Duke maps, i guess.

I'm afraid you won't find many other places to talk of that, it's just how Duke is nowadays... Don't give up mapping for this though, I like what I'm seeing 

[The Commander]

I like the looks of this map, nice use of textures and sprites, I can see you havent fogetn about shading on the outside parts but inside places are lacking a little but I can understand this when it comes to inside parts as shading in them places leaves little room or makes other things harder to do. But the main light levels in general dark places seems good enough to me to not worry about the shading in them places.
Keep it up. 

[CarThief]

Hmmm... Making light-specific shading inside the building could be something, but there isnt alot of lights around, just a general level of light, about 15 shading, in some area's, like air ducts, or that one dark area it increasingly becomes darker, with visual as well as shading being less and less when going in.

Though i prefer to keep the general shading on 15 or so, unless i specificly make a light that casts shadows from objects. Other then that, i didnt use sprites at all for the metal bars all over the construction, what would be rather needed to in reality support the shaft, so its going to be even more work to get those sectors right then!

And i sadly cannot make the drill spin that easily i think, or never tried with a bunch of sectors stuck to eachother, though that part isnt that far, the drill is just part of the construction, as like, the aliens trying to dig a hole, to expand the base. Im a bit better at the graphics then such hard to do effects.

Ill post a screenshot of the general construction of those hallways with lots of bars, with this sector work, its rather hard to draw lines of shading, sadly.

It is also the same area as screenshot 2.

And i'll think about an epic end, though i probaly wont add a boss, but there's plenty of things to make rather exessive and epic, though probaly not suicidal.

[MetHy]

I should have made myself more clear..

By shading I didn't mean sector shadows, but different shading levels on different walls to add a better impression of depth. But I'm not the best one to talk about that... 

Also about the drill, I didn't mean actually SEEING it work, I was more thinking of being in another room, pressing a "active drill" button and then when you come back there is a big hole in the room in which Duke can jump (this can probably be done in some kind of way, like in copy pasting the same room but the 2nd one have the hole.. though it's trouble if there are other exists in the room).
That was just an idea anyway...

[CarThief]

Ah, that kind of shading? The light there is like... a general ambience, i prefer to keep it at 15, or whatever the natural light is of the sector, mainly due to not being any big visible lights in the area, though with some that do have one, who knows.

But i was never that big on shading walls differently in same area, unless directly casting shadow, or light, i guess.

Might be able to do such for the drill, such as an explosion with some operation error, sinking the floor as ive seen in some maps, creating a tunnel, and with correctly placed SE teleporter, it even links to an area. But no plans for that area for now, its a rather early part of the map.

Hmm... Other then the light and shading in some area's, the map seems overall fine, just some good idea's, a bit more work on it, perhaps more enemies, though quite balanced with amount of ammo. In any case about 75% done, currently.

I wonder if there are other comments, and in the meanwhile i guess i'll see if i can think of something to add to the map.

Edit: I did make some shadows cast from the sun in the starting outside area. even in the parts unreachable. Hmm... now i recall, it was in the first screenshot too, though there's more then that in that area. Perhaps i should add more lights, though.

[ck3D]

I like it a lot so far. Here are my two cents to make it even better :

- as MetHy said, shade some of those walls. Two 'connected' walls should never have the same shade value, make one of them slightly darker / brighter by around 2 or 4 units. Shouldn't take that much time to fix, and you quickly get used to it. It could make wonders, especially in this place : http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/650/dlabsc2ko7.png

- that room with the windows would probably look heaps better if the windows weren't just red textures or sprites. Build an outdoor, unreachable place, and make the windows transparent (and blocked, of course). For the window on the ceiling, change the texture to a sky texture, paralax it, and use flat, transparent window sprites to make the glass pane.

- I'm not a big fan of the metalic texture on the upper right corner of this screenshot : http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9885/dlabsc4vk1.png it doesn't really feel connected to the ceiling, maybe use some trimwork or something. I don't like the texture on the side of the oven is this too : http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3416/dlabsc3gg4.png probably because you use the same one for the walls. Try to refrain from texture repetition in general, you seem to overuse the metalic texture in the whole map, maybe you should try experimenting with different ones, to add variety.

Apart from this I like it a lot, looks promising. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see how this one turns out.

[CarThief]

Rather suprising, i completely missed the texture on the oven, and i even made a screenshot personally! Oh well, will be fixed.
And i might, as soon as i perhaps create a light source to give it a bit more shade, or lightness.

And the room with the windows is transparant, behind it is the storm texture, the one in the beginning of the level looked rather... ugly at that area, and wont do well with red glasses either. An area would be rather much work, and besides that, that office is supposed to be on a rather high level, though not much idea what of outside weather to use.

I neither have much replacement for the blue door, if you mean that, if its the ceiling around it, it does have to be somewhat metallic, and there isnt alot that fits.


Hmmm... I think that covers all, though texture repeating isnt that bad, as long as its on the right spot, or when rather needed, such as those bars. It is rather tricky moving, sometimes though.

I do wonder, whats with all that shading stuff? Especially making walls different shading, for me it does fine with a shadow at some places, and generally not too bright.
Or is it a habit that most mappers follow somewhat from 3D realm's maps?

[MetHy]

I do wonder, whats with all that shading stuff? Especially making walls different shading, for me it does fine with a shadow at some places, and generally not too bright.
Or is it a habit that most mappers follow somewhat from 3D realm's maps?

The difference might seem little but it does make the whole look better....

[CarThief]

Hmmm... Who knows.
Ive been doing some of the starting parts now, but reshading over ten thousand walls will take long!

Its also rather tiring, and i havent slept yet, just stayed awake all the way trough, but im reaching my limits now.
Perhaps that i will sleep sooner or later, and of course unable to respond fastly.
But more comments can be always put for reading later on.

I think i'll leave the shading at simply sectors with a nearby light, else its simply too much work! And the oven's fixed too.
Just no time to update screenshots.

[MetHy]

This is a usually a pretty slow board, you shouldn't expect to read comments too soon after your posts   

[Captain Awesome]

This looks promising and impressive.

Keep up the good work: Quick crits->

Listen to MRCK's recommendations, and on the second screen, try choosing a different floor texture, rather than that generic metal. I also recommend that you add both kinds of shading that were mentioned. It's worth it, believe me.

Good shading means the difference between a bad map and a good map for some reviewers, especially ones like Mikko Sandt (from MSDN).

[CarThief]

Awake again, and still generally over 10000 walls to shade in such case, or i'll atleast do most of them with a light in the area.

But other then the shading, some idea's cant harm.
The map is simply the standart taken over by alien base, duke gets sent and all hell breaks loose. Also made for Co-op.
The map is generally one of those middle levels, without boss or anything, but neither too easy, might fit decently in an episode, perhaps.

Ah well, back to work again, though i wont be very fast at it.

Oh, and i do alternate the floor in the metal area's a bit, either the same for bars, but used differently, or one of those... uhh, other things. Though didnt use alot other types along with the bars, though.

And the board isnt that slow either, or atleast far from death.
Hmm... First things first, im hungry! Cant edit without some food, hehe.


Edit: Now im rather stuck, i want to make an working door inside an two way train! Ive tried a floor rising sprite, with 2 activators, but it doesnt even respond! Does it only work for doom doors? Or are there alternatives, i do want the door inside the train. Its going to look bad if in the long tunnel i have to block off the entire door side.

Hmm... I do remember a force field trick, but that's somewhat one-time, and else difficult to impossible to time with the train, i guess, if using it back and forward.

Oh, and i cant make a doom door in the train, because the train's roof is made of sprites, and it would look unaturally and ugly to make the entire middle of the tunnel lower for the door.
Edit2: It also requires another tag and would make it loose and perhaps buggy from the train, i think.

[MetHy]

But other then the shading, some idea's cant harm.
The map is simply the standart taken over by alien base, duke gets sent and all hell breaks loose. Also made for Co-op.
The map is generally one of those middle levels, without boss or anything, but neither too easy, might fit decently in an episode, perhaps.

There is nothing wrong with having a "normal" map.

[William Gee]

As other people have said, it looks really great, cant wait to play it.