Author Topic: Last map you played/Map Reviews  (Read 86922 times)

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Offline Forge

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1485 on: August 10, 2010, 07:47:56 AM »
Not if the mapper's intention is to give a claustrophobic mood. While that's something rare concerning Duke Nukem 3D it can still be the case for dark, horror-ish areas.

They're just examples, but if you want to nit-pick. No matter what the mapper's intent, there' s still a thing called "too cramped" because it wasn't executed properly.
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Offline Nancsi

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1486 on: August 11, 2010, 05:20:11 AM »
I have to say Red3 is my favourite Mrline map by a mile. It gives the best balance of the moodish/horroristic theme which were all set up in the end of Red2 (a very underrated map actually), but not overproduced, overdetailed, and still has the quintessential Duke3d feel to it. It has a great replay value, unlike Red4 and Red5. Red4 is still very good, but a bit overdetailed at times, and the gameplay could have been better. Red5 has always been a major dissappointment for me, because it - while being detailed to death - sucked away all the charm what made Red3 a true classic. It has a "save often" type gameplay, wrong puzzles, and the ending is a bit stupid quite frankly. Well, that's my opinion fellas, sorry for that.

As for Ale, I used to like his maps because of his great sense for beautiful BobSp style architecture, not overdetailed, just right. The keycard hunting in his levels are also in the right balance. However as time went by, his maps became shorter and shorter, Alien Wipeout was just a half assed one with 2 and a half minutes of gameplay, which was a letdown despite the good graphics. And honestly, I don't like the complete lack of sound effects, the "always shotgun" fight and the lack of enemy variety as well. These minor things keep all of his maps away from real classics. The controversial EDF Secret Base turned out to be the best, gameplay wise, although still not perfect. The last one, while looks good, was an explosion fest, I've already given up on these style of maps.

Offline Mikko_Sandt

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1487 on: August 11, 2010, 06:44:36 AM »
And honestly, I don't like the complete lack of sound effects, the "always shotgun" fight and the lack of enemy variety as well.

Yeah, I was just playing the ADG episode and found the lack of variety in the weapons department quite noticeable. Kinda like Sanek.
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Offline Nancsi

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1488 on: August 11, 2010, 02:08:04 PM »
I think in the original maps every weapon were available at one point. That could be a norm for every level.

Offline Merlijn

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1489 on: August 11, 2010, 02:49:14 PM »
It doesn't have to be a norm, as long as the gameplay doesn't get monotone or boring.

@ Nancsi: I'm sorry you think that way of red5, I personally still regard as my best map. Especially the underground sections; that's some of the most atmospheric stuff I built. I'll admit that some puzzles might be confusing the first time.

Offline Dan G

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1490 on: August 11, 2010, 04:00:09 PM »
It doesn't have to be a norm, as long as the gameplay doesn't get monotone or boring.

@ Nancsi: I'm sorry you think that way of red5, I personally still regard as my best map. Especially the underground sections; that's some of the most atmospheric stuff I built. I'll admit that some puzzles might be confusing the first time.

I don't know what Nansci means about "wrong puzzles".  Speaking for myself, the atmosphere was fantastic, and the puzzles were fine.  The gameplay, on the other hand (again, using a narrow definition) was a bit...choppy.  I can see what he means about it being one of those maps where you have to save a lot.  On more than one occasion the player is exploring the moody environment and then suddenly there is a huge ambush.  Kind of goes along with the horror theme, I guess.  Then there's that big tripbomb trap that the player can easily walk into before noticing it and get killed.  This may be an eduke bug, though, I'm not sure, but it seems like laser lines don't show up lately until you have been standing next to the tripbombs for a while.

Offline Nancsi

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1491 on: August 12, 2010, 01:32:56 AM »
It doesn't have to be a norm, as long as the gameplay doesn't get monotone or boring.

@ Nancsi: I'm sorry you think that way of red5, I personally still regard as my best map. Especially the underground sections; that's some of the most atmospheric stuff I built. I'll admit that some puzzles might be confusing the first time.

I don't know what Nansci means about "wrong puzzles".  Speaking for myself, the atmosphere was fantastic, and the puzzles were fine.  The gameplay, on the other hand (again, using a narrow definition) was a bit...choppy.  I can see what he means about it being one of those maps where you have to save a lot.  On more than one occasion the player is exploring the moody environment and then suddenly there is a huge ambush.  Kind of goes along with the horror theme, I guess.  Then there's that big tripbomb trap that the player can easily walk into before noticing it and get killed.  This may be an eduke bug, though, I'm not sure, but it seems like laser lines don't show up lately until you have been standing next to the tripbombs for a while.

I have to replay it soon to make a proper opinion about the map. I remember a puzzle at the end where you have to set some cannon to the monster item, I thought that was kinda lame, but I'll give it another chance tonight.

Offline William Gee

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1492 on: August 12, 2010, 03:00:00 AM »
Although I always prefer open area levels, I still prefer red4 over the other red maps.

Offline Nancsi

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1493 on: August 12, 2010, 02:35:51 PM »
I've played Red5 again, as I promised earlier. Well, here are my two cents:

1. The level is wonderfully crafted from the leveldesign perspective. It had a good construction overall, the shading was well done, had many eyecandy, etc. It clearly had a design of more advanced games like HL.

2. Despite all the good, there are minor flaws in this department: For example the typical "the less should have been more" can be said, especially for the spritework. I never liked the goofy colours, neither on enemies, nor on sprites. If you want the enemies look different, make them transparent or totally black. The sprites rarely need palette changes, and NEVER need to be flipped over. Sometimes I saw totally unrelated sprites on the walls with palette, transparency, and flipover. No need of that, less work, better result. Also, I always prefer the rule, that when you see a door, you should enter it somehow. Maybe not in the outside house (but why not?), but on the inside complex, no need of those phonies IMHO.

3. The gameplay was actually quite straightforward. Those newbeasts aside in that middle room the map didn't feel that difficult now. Although I can't say I was truly impressed by the battle intensity, it wasn't bad, it just did the job.

4. As for the puzzles: yes, the helicopter sequence was very, very well made, loved that scene (although the voice more like a Duke player's one, not a soldier's :P). No frustrating puzzles, so I was wrong with this. I wasn't a fan of that big button puzzle though, it could have been a bit more simple, like the one in Area 51. One thing I hated though is those platform jumping from the water. I was n00bish falling back and cheated for jetpack instead of restart the whole rituale. This wasn't neccessary at all.

5. The sound effects were mixed bag: I think again the less would have been more. Waaay too much "fake" sounds, some of them were predictable and gave a very anti-climatic atmosphere. Since this level is far less darker then Red3, far less of these were needed. Sometimes it was very cool: I loved that when a metal door suddenly became broken, that surprised me. The vent thing with the newbeast head was cool, and obviously that bloody "surprise" room was perfectly timed and done. But again, it would have worked better with less of these effects.

6. And the ending: Sorry pal, but the whole thing was wrong, and left me unsatisfied (again). Obviously this is Duke3d, with it's obvious limits, but that cannon thing with those "paper" turrets looked bad, also the whole "shoot the enemy base" with it's uninteresting sound effect was a phony, along with the screen supported. Never felt anything special when did it. And if we talk about screens, I also think it's neccessary to tell the story this way, nobody reads it I guess.

What I actually don't understand what was the mood you set here: dark, horroristic like Red3, DP4, A Dream etc. or military? It was way too mixed to get the proper mood for the level. IMHO, aside from the vent area, it should have been a Military Madness type map with run and gun gameplay, although no overpopulated with enemies.

Final thoughts: I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the level, it had a wonderfully crafted leveldesign, great texture choices and some neat effects. But if I have to rate it in a point system, 100% for the effort and "production value" is deserved, but that aside I would give it around 85%. Still a hot map, but could have been a lot better.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 02:38:15 PM by Nancsi »

Offline Gambini

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1494 on: August 12, 2010, 07:26:24 PM »
I just want to say that the things you more disliked are the things i more liked. Upside down sprites with strange palettes, weird sounds and a design coming from nowhere near to any other duke map is what makes this level one of the best ever. It feels like a map with custom content and very original concept. The cannon puzzle is pretty cool, i wont say it´s awesome because three of the four times i played this map didn´t work as expected. But it´s indeed something you don´t expect to do in a duke map, so originality = cool. Also, the fact you don´t read the screens doesn´t means that "nobody reads it". I personally think it´s part of the immersive atmosphere and adds some trace of human life in a game where the only evidence of humanity are dumpy hookers.

Offline Nancsi

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1495 on: August 13, 2010, 02:04:22 AM »
Then we can agree to disagree here. :)

I think upside down sprites with strange palette don't make sense in any kind of map. Do you think that flipping over the "San Andreas Fault" sign and put it in a security room can appear for real?

The cannon puzzle could have been good, but with Duke3d engine limitations it feels fake (unlike the helicopter puzzle which looked real and cool).

Also without the context of the map originality=/=cool.

Offline Merlijn

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1496 on: August 13, 2010, 01:02:31 PM »
Let's just say I agree with Gambini and disagree with most of your points. ;)

The cannon puzzle was very tricky and alas I ran out of resources (old limits), so that's why the destruction of the alien target at the end doesn't look as cool as I originally intended it to be. If I ever finish the red1 remake, I'll rerelease the entire episode and that would also be a good excuse to improve on these kind of points.

But hey, you've got to admit that the radar effect was pretty damn awesome. *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*  BOOOM!  8) I noticed 16bit fucks up the red radar dot though, another reason to play this in 8-bit.

And if people aren't bothered to read the viewscreens.. well, then they're fools and they're missing out on the story. Their loss, not mine.  :P

Offline Forge

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1497 on: August 13, 2010, 06:45:28 PM »
I have to specifically agree with the very first sentence of Gambini's post. The rest of it too, but more emphasis on the first sentence.
"Silflay hraka, u embleer rah!" - Thlayi

Offline Nancsi

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1498 on: August 14, 2010, 06:23:00 PM »
I started playing Docking Doom... but stuck. I've found a yellow key, but only blue key access exists. Anyone can help?

Offline Dan G

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Re: Last map you played/Map Reviews
« Reply #1499 on: August 14, 2010, 07:03:28 PM »
I started playing Docking Doom... but stuck. I've found a yellow key, but only blue key access exists. Anyone can help?

You need to get the blue keycard before using the yellow one.

In the shuttle bay, one of the shuttles has a sprite door that can be blown up.  This requires that you saved a pipebomb, which are nowhere near the door.  There are no clues anywhere suggesting the door can be destroyed, because it's one of those maps that looks nice but has random and unfair level progression (and don't forget to hit the switch hidden deep in the maze of vents).

I played this map recently while hunting for levels suitable for including with my Attrition mod.  It didn't quite make the cut, for the reason cited.